IC when I say Im betting the house(my Billion Star PICK), its just a figure of speech. But It did stir things up, didnt it !!!!!!!!!!!!! Brought something to this forum other than the SAME THANG !!!! Looking forward to more good write ups. GOOD JOB everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a great discussion and I'm glad we're having it bud, I will hit this up this afternoon as I enjoy this thread.
Are there not any conservative voices out there or is every voice at the Lounge and the folks who read it all voting for Obama? I am undecided, but certainly not everyone must be fawning over a candidate with little to no legislative accomplishment.
__________________ Indiancowboy Researched Write-ups Every day.
It's a great discussion and I'm glad we're having it bud, I will hit this up this afternoon as I enjoy this thread.
Are there not any conservative voices out there or is every voice at the Lounge and the folks who read it all voting for Obama? I am undecided, but certainly not everyone must be fawning over a candidate with legislative accomplishment.
No conservatives here. Its a pretty honest forum. Conservatives lie lie lie.
__________________
January: +4.45 units, February: +.39 units, March +3 units, April +1.29 units, May +2.08 units, June +15.02 units, July +.4 units, August +.54 units, September +4.63 units, October +3.25 units, November +1.80 units (15 winning months in a row)
It's a great discussion and I'm glad we're having it bud, I will hit this up this afternoon as I enjoy this thread.
Are there not any conservative voices out there or is every voice at the Lounge and the folks who read it all voting for Obama? I am undecided, but certainly not everyone must be fawning over a candidate with legislative accomplishment.
I'm sure there are conservatives here, but they're all at a Bill of Rights burning party.
The irony is, I am a moderate that Voted who's family voted for Bill Clinton, a southern Democrat and come from the Lunch Bucket Democrats that the pundits are so fondly use to saying.
But, that's fine.
By the way, Vytas, please do not say I am a Republican nor using Republican Talking points - I am a Lunch Bucket Democrat. I know politics and I know what I am. In fact, I have never voted for a Republican for President. I do love you like my brother though - .
Now, there is no doubt Barack has trouble winning over these lunch bucket democrats - after all, that was the base of Hillary Clinton's constituency.
B, to answer your question:
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Palin has no experience and then when she has more executive experience, somehow down play.
She has less elected experience than Obama, but she has more executive Experience and she has Accomplished Far more legislatively in 2 years as Governor than Obama has done in 13 years. Those are the facts. She ended a corrupt government good ol' boy system in Alaska, passed sweeping Ethics Reform, cut Pork-Barrel spending which McCain favors heavily and has never voted for a Pork Barrel project - and that's in his 20+ years in the Senate, that takes heavy discipline. She the consequently cut taxes with the increased revenue and put more money back in the pockets of people of Alaska.
Yes, Alaska is a small state, but its the policies that matter and it is the same thing that Governor Bobby Jindal is doing in Alaska. Just because she ran a state with great policies, you can't discredit them by saying, but wait its a small state. The point is, she accomplished it, which is far more than Barack Obama can say.
Plus, this election is not Palin vs. Obama. But rather, McCain vs. Obama. In that regard, Obama falls well short of experience. The American people rarely vote for the Vice-President anyway, albeit, Joe Lieberman was an exception with the Jewish community coming out in droves for Gore.
I do conede that Obama inspires. After all, Kennedy inspired and stated we need to go to the Moon - and we did. I'll give credit where credit is due. Having said that, Barack has accomplished nothing. After all, my Preacher is inspiring, but that does not mean he should be elected President. I want Competence. He has done very little and accomplished very little, while McCain and Palin and for that matter Biden have accomplished far more. I believe promotions are given based on track record and experience, how can someone now lead a country given that he has done nearly nothing? If a floor worker came to you and asked you to lead the company and his accomplishments are spotty - would you do it? Remember, it was Joe Biden that stated, Barack Obama is Woefully unprepared to be President, and then adamantly stood by that statement - now he loves him because he can become the vice-president. Funny how that works.
Once again, Please name me Accomplishments of Barack Obama and Pieces of Legislation that he has passed? I am looking for any sort of Competence and Track record, besides somehow who can deliver a teleprompter speech?
Obama supporters, give me Legislation and Accomplishments. That's all I ask. McCain has 12 pieces of legislation on Veterans Rights, Immigration and Campaign Finance Reform. Palin has 6 accomplishments.
Palin has passed the Most Sweeping Ethics Reform in the State of Alaska which was incredibly corrupt, she cut spending and cut taxes across the Board. That is good work. Please do not dimunize her accomplishments - talk up your candidate, but dimunizing someone's hard work is pretty ****ty.
__________________ Indiancowboy Researched Write-ups Every day.
Having said all this, I am still undecided about the Election.
I can't stand Bush. I am upset at certain portions of our country, but stating that McCain is the same as Bush so vote for someone else is not going to cut it for me.
Because, McCain is not the same as Bush, he has bucked his party's establishment time and time again.
Vig and B, I did enjoy those videos.
He is inspiring, but so is my preacher...does that mean my Preacher should run for office?
Thus, this goes to show, the American people have always voted for Candidates that they like and delivers better speeches than Experience. Kennedy over Nixon, Clinton over Bush, Kennedy over Lyndon Johnson, Bush over McCain and Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton. Having said this, Barack could very well win this election, I am undecided and will wait for the debates.
__________________ Indiancowboy Researched Write-ups Every day.
Once again, Please name me Accomplishments of Barack Obama and Pieces of Legislation that he has passed? I am looking for any sort of Competence and Track record, besides somehow who can deliver a teleprompter speech?
Obama supporters, give me Legislation and Accomplishments. That's all I ask. McCain has 12 pieces of legislation on Veterans Rights, Immigration and Campaign Finance Reform. Palin has 6 accomplishments.
Obama sponsored more than 800 bills in the Illinois senate:
Including 223 on Health Care which included:
1. An Illinois consitutional amendment that would establish a right to universal health care coverage.
2. A number of measures that would extend health care coverage for those just above the poverty line.
3. A bill that would establish a commission to develop a plan for providing universal health care in Illinois.
4. A bill that would permit embryonic stem cell research.
Including 125 bills on poverty and public assistance which included:
1. A bill that would initiate a long term study about welfare success rates, making the information available to universities and research institutions.
2. A bill that would provide job skills training to those receiving federal aid.
Including 112 bills on Crime, Corrections and the Death Penalty including:
1. A bill that would establish a program to help juvenile offenders re-integrate into the community after their sentences.
2. A bill that would require police to videotape interrogations of criminal suspects.
Including 97 bills on the Economy, Business and Finance
Including 60 bills on Civil and Human Rights including:
1. A bill that would require a study of the race of people stopped for traffic violations. This was paired with a bill that would allow officers to stop people for seat belt violations.
2. A bill that would ban discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Including 35 bills on Infrastructure and Public Works
Including 21 bills on Ethics including:
1. A bill that would ban nearly all gifts by *****ists and barred the personal use of campaign money.
2. A bill that would add State inspectors to investigate violations.
3. A bill that would create public funding for Supreme Court races.
Including 21 bills on Administration
Including 20 bills on the Environment including:
1. A bill that require utilities to purchase a portion of their energy from renewable sources.
Including 15 bills on Gun Control Including:
1. A bill that would require applicants for a firearm identification card to meet with a law enforcement officer as part of the application process.
Including 6 bill on Veteran's Affairs and the Military
Including 1 bill on Immigration which was a bill that would create an office of Immigrant Assistance to provide education and outreach services.
This does not lists all of his accomplishments, nor does it deal with his accomplishments prior to entering elected office.
Obama has shown that he can produce results everywhere he has EVER been.
__________________
January: +4.45 units, February: +.39 units, March +3 units, April +1.29 units, May +2.08 units, June +15.02 units, July +.4 units, August +.54 units, September +4.63 units, October +3.25 units, November +1.80 units (15 winning months in a row)
Vig, man of these are co-sponsorships, if that is the case than McCain and Palin will have more bills as well as he has voted for these measures. I'm not saying he is a bad guy, but if these are indeed bills that he sponsored and wrote, than his campaign is not doing a good job of advertising them. They need to take a more pro-active stance as does Obama by coming out and saying all of the bills and legislation he has passed. He doesn't talk about such accomplishments so it either makes people think he co-signed and didn't write the bill or he hasn't accomplished anything - which doesn't seem to be the case here as he has worked on many bills.
I think they are both good men. It should be interesting to see what the debates bring, when that rolls around, that is when I'm going to make my decision. To be frank, my top 2 choices for President were Joe Biden and John McCain before this election season started. We'll see what the debates hold. Good work on researching the legislation.
__________________ Indiancowboy Researched Write-ups Every day.
Obama sponsored more than 800 bills in the Illinois senate:
Including 223 on Health Care which included:
1. An Illinois consitutional amendment that would establish a right to universal health care coverage.
2. A number of measures that would extend health care coverage for those just above the poverty line.
3. A bill that would establish a commission to develop a plan for providing universal health care in Illinois.
4. A bill that would permit embryonic stem cell research.
Including 125 bills on poverty and public assistance which included:
1. A bill that would initiate a long term study about welfare success rates, making the information available to universities and research institutions.
2. A bill that would provide job skills training to those receiving federal aid.
Including 112 bills on Crime, Corrections and the Death Penalty including:
1. A bill that would establish a program to help juvenile offenders re-integrate into the community after their sentences.
2. A bill that would require police to videotape interrogations of criminal suspects.
Including 97 bills on the Economy, Business and Finance
Including 60 bills on Civil and Human Rights including:
1. A bill that would require a study of the race of people stopped for traffic violations. This was paired with a bill that would allow officers to stop people for seat belt violations.
2. A bill that would ban discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Including 35 bills on Infrastructure and Public Works
Including 21 bills on Ethics including:
1. A bill that would ban nearly all gifts by *****ists and barred the personal use of campaign money.
2. A bill that would add State inspectors to investigate violations.
3. A bill that would create public funding for Supreme Court races.
Including 21 bills on Administration
Including 20 bills on the Environment including:
1. A bill that require utilities to purchase a portion of their energy from renewable sources.
Including 15 bills on Gun Control Including:
1. A bill that would require applicants for a firearm identification card to meet with a law enforcement officer as part of the application process.
Including 6 bill on Veteran's Affairs and the Military
Including 1 bill on Immigration which was a bill that would create an office of Immigrant Assistance to provide education and outreach services.
What has Obama accomplished??? FIRST BLACK MAN IN US HISTORY TO BE ELECTED HIS PARTY'S CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT, SOON TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE US !!!!!!!!! You talk of all this experience(Mcain and Biden) Look at this country with the MAJOR issues facing us.Its been a DO NOTHING GOVERNMENT for years!!! The only thing they do well is investigate one another and march us off to war. CHANGE OR SAME THANG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Palin HATES millions of Americans and doesn't want the Constitution to apply to them. The part about 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. That's quite an accomplishemnt.
You are missing the point COMPLETELY. While Vig lists some great accomplishments, in my mind it doesn't matter one bit.
Accomplishments, if they are BAD (i.e. see Bush/McCain), are worse than doing nothing.
McCain may have more experience and he is nearly 30 years older than Obama (and thus, not surprisingly, he will have more accomplishments). Point conceded.
So friggin what?
The point here, which is MOST important, is what these guys have done, and what they will do for this country.
McCain voting 95% with Bush is what he has accomplished.
McCain will take this country further down the WRONG path.
Hitler had more experience than Obama. If he were alive, should we then vote for him?
Bin Laden has more experience than Obama. Should we vote for him?
Crazy that I am comparing McCain to these two guys? Maybe a little. But not that much. I am making some shocking statements to point out the absurdity of saying we should vote for the person with more experience.
Vote based on ISSUES and POLICIES.
McCain will help the super-rich, the corporations, the insurance companies and the HMOs at the expense of 99% of the American population. FACT.
McCain will keep us in Iraq, wasting billions of dollars, and American and Iraqi lives instead of ending a terrible war and using that money for pressing issues here at home. FACT. He will look for ways to go to war with Iran and repeat the mistakes of the current Republican administration.
Obama will try to do right by the American people. He will raise taxes on the richest 1% (those making over $600,000 per year) while lowering taxes for EVERYONE ELSE. He will end the war and focus on domestic issues at hand.
Experience is NOT what's important here and the McCain campaign has essentially conceded this fact, by selecting Palin. The issue is who will do right by 99% of the American public vs. who will continue to bend them over. The choice is super-clear and the "experience" garbage is just noise that needs to be dispensed with.
Last edited by The Bartender; 09-01-08 at 01:07 PM.
The best bartender advise I,ve ever read or heard.Thanks guys for all the info and advise(even you IC) LOL !!!!!! Look at all the concern for the hurricane,must be an election year!!!!!!!!!!!!
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